Torture?

This is coolbert:

Here, in a nutshell, are the various nations and agencies [military/intelligence/secret service/security/police] that have employed enhanced interrogation techniques ["the methods"] since the time of World War Two [WW2].

NOT torture as generally, ordinarily, and commonly understood? NO breaking of the fingers in both hand, pulling out of teeth or fingernails, NO red-hot ramrod inserted into the fundament, etc?

"Fundament - - 2. The part of the body on which one sits; the buttocks; specifically (Anat.), the anus. --Hume."

For the purposes of this blog entry, waterboarding is defined as:

"Waterboarding is a [process by which] forced suffocation and inhalation of water . . . the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent."

But, still, "methods" that are controversial, brutal, demeaning, legal [??]!!

* German Gestapo [WW2]: "Verschärfte Vernehmung" . . . German term translated . . . as "enhanced interrogation".

* "Simplest rations."
* "Hard bed."
* "Dark cell."
* "Deprivation of sleep."
* "Exhaustion exercises."
* "Blows with a stick."

* Communists in Korea: [used against American and allied POW]

* "keeping them in filth." [this technique works well on Americans??!!]
* "sleep deprivation."
* "partial sensory deprivation."
* "psychological harassment."
* "inculcation of guilt."
* "group social pressure."

* French military in Algeria: [Le Gengene]

* Isolation and confinement.
* Beating.
* Electric shock and/or waterboarding.

* French DST: [Paris DST (Direction de surveillance territoire) police (roughly analogous to the FBI.)]

* "repeated kicks and punches."
* "exhausting physical exercises."
* "tortured with electric shock, especially on the genitalia" [private parts].
* "waterboarded in a mixture of urine and vomit."
* "tied to hot radiators."

* British in Northern Ireland: [The Five Techniques]

The five techniques were [are]:

* "wall-standing."
* "hooding."
* "subjection to noise."
* "deprivation of sleep."
* "deprivation of food and drink."

* American military techniques [as] taught in the SERE-program: [Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape]

* "Prolonged isolation."
* "Prolonged sleep deprivation."
* "Sensory deprivation."
* "Extremely painful 'stress positions'."
* "Sensory bombardment." (prolonged loud noise and/or bright lights)."
* "Forced nakedness."
* "Sexual humiliation."
* "Cultural humiliation." (such as desecration of holy scriptures).
* "Being subjected to extreme cold."
* "Exploitation of phobias."
* "Waterboarding."

* Chicago Police?

* Chained to a hot radiator in a confined position [stressful] for an extended period.
* Hooded with a smelly, dirty bag over the head. [a typewriter cover]
* Extended period of nakedness in a confined position chained to a hot radiator.

* American CIA in the aftermath of 9/11:

Authorized techniques include:

* "The Attention Grab. The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him."
* "Attention Slap. An open-handed slap to the face."
* "The Belly Slap. A hard open-handed slap to the abdomen."
* "Long Time Standing. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor, for more than 40 hours."
* "The Cold Cell." The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10 degrees Celsius)."
* "Waterboarding."

Anyone care - - to sign - - the statement - - RIGHT NOW!!

Am I being too flippant??!!

coolbert.

Torture?!

This is coolbert:

We are on the subject of torture again.

Specifically, the Five Techniques.

* "wall-standing"

* "hooding"

* "subjection to noise"

* "deprivation of sleep"

* "deprivation of food and drink."

Used by the British forces in Northern Ireland. As a response to the actions of the Irish Republican Army [IRA].

Techniques categorized as “enhanced” methods of interrogation. NOT painful torture [??] as is generally and commonly understood! Techniques that DO, however, create a lot of discomfort.

Techniques that when made public and described, caused a row in the British government. English politicians had to abolish the five techniques as SOP when the “Law Lords” ruled these methods to be impermissible under English law.

Techniques, however, found to NOT constitute torture as the word is commonly, generally, and ordinarily understood. Again, NOT extreme physical pain. BUT, uncomfortable and stressful. Part of what is called the “hostile interrogation”.

"did not occasion suffering of the particular intensity and cruelty implied by the word torture"

The use of the Five Techniques is NOT something new or solely confined to the English!?

German forces in World War Two used the Five Techniques. Germans military personnel [Gestapo??] were convicted to employing these “methods” and executed!?

This was what the Germans called "verschärfte Vernehmung". Consisting of:

* "Simplest rations"
* "Hard bed"
* "Dark cell"
* "Deprivation of sleep"
* "Exhaustion exercises"
* "Blows with a stick"

Certain Chicago police detectives have also been accused by a number of convicted criminals of using variations of the Five Techniques to obtain “confessions”. Placing a dirty, smelly, plastic typewriter dust cover over the head and handcuffing to a radiator for an extended period of time.

And, in the book, “Bridge at Andau”, James Michener describes how the Hungarian communist authorities, in an effort to coerce “dissidents” to “sign the statement”; persons were required, among other "methods", to stand on one foot for hours on end.

[HEY, TRY THIS AS AN EXPERIMENT ON YOURSELF!! STAND ON ONE FOOT AND SEE HOW LONG YOU CAN DO IT BEFORE THE PAIN BECOMES VERY BAD!! HOW LONG COULD YOU HOLD OUT!! THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO STAND ON ONE FOOT FOR HOURS AT A TIME!!]

Take my word for it. It does not take long before you are very uncomfortable!

coolbert.

Coercion!

This is coolbert:

"the most valuable form of intelligence in this type of war [counter-terrorism] will be the hostile interrogation" - - Shlomo Gazit - - former Israeli commander of Aman [military intelligence].

The U.S. Congress is once again debating methods of "coercion" that are to be permissible in the fight against terrorism. Establishing guidelines and LAWS that must be followed by both civilian and military interrogators.

It seems that there are three forms of "coercion" that are felt to be controversial and "over-the-line". Methods and techniques as applied, specifically so, by CIA [?] operations officers when interrogating captured jihadists.

To include:

* Waterboarding. Used three times only [?] by CIA interrogators, and in all three occasions applied against what are called high-value targets.

* Extended periods of confinement in stressful postures. Shackled in such a way that the person being interrogated cannot stand, lie down, or sit. An extended period of time can be measured in DAYS.

* Nakedness. Stripping a man naked and keeping him so while questions are posed to him.

With regard to the latter, obviously a reaction to the Abu Ghraib incident. Photos, circulated world-wide of naked Iraqis did a lot of damage to the American image. WE WERE perceived as NOT the good guys in the white hats.

These methods and techniques of "coercion" are torture? NOT exactly as defined by the conventions on torture and the generally accepted definition of what has constituted torture in the past.

BUT, are seen be many in Congress as being deplorable and not to be tolerated.

More conventional and acceptable forms of interrogation are to be stressed when interrogating a captured jihadi! These are the various psychological techniques as taught to U.S. military interrogators.

To include [but not limited to]:

* "Mutt and Jeff". The good-cop, bad-cop routine. One interrogator the hard case, the other the "understanding" friend.

* The 201 file. "We already know almost everything about you. Let us just fill in a few blanks!!"

Several comments here.

1. The jihadi is already trained on how to resist psychological techniques of interrogation. Training is available via the various jihad schools. My instinctive, intuitive reaction is that a jihadi, when confronted by the psycho methods, will just sit there, smile, and remain mute. Forever!! Generally speaking, psychological methods will come to more or less naught with the jihadi.

[American interrogators had been told, that in case of a hot war with the Soviets, captured Soviet prisoners would give up the goods more or less immediately in 90 % of the cases!!!]

2. The specific instance of interrogating Abu Zubaida by waterboarding [by CIA operatives] has been mentioned with regard to the destroyed interrogations videos. The man [Abu Zubaida] WAS ABLE TO HOLD OUT FOR THIRTY FIVE SECONDS!! And that was that!! After that, the man sang like a canary!!??

[years ago now, a long-time CIA case officer who had spent decades working in Latin American countries recounted an incident where he applied psychological interrogation techniques [even to the extent of withholding cigarettes!!!] on a captured communist revolutionary for ninety six hours. The man did not utter a peep the whole time After thirty minutes with the local police, who employed their own "methods" the same revolutionary had spilled the beans and told all!! What was done was not mentioned, but it must have hurt!!]

[undoubtedly, some persons in Congress will agree that withholding cigarettes is a form of torture. Extreme pain, both physical and mental, is being inflicted on the victim!!]

3. Does Congress realize that passing a LAW outlawing certain interrogation techniques might actually render null and void current training methods used by the U.S. military during SERE qualification? During SERE training, certain select members of the U.S. military, Rangers, Special Forces [SF], combat pilots, are waterboarded, stripped, kept in confined stressful postures AS PART OF THE SERE QUALIFICATION PROCESS. I hope Congress addresses this and IS EVEN AWARE OF THE DIFFICULTY SUCH A LAW WILL POSE.

[it is reputed that CIA operations officers are also waterboarded as part of their training. The average person can withstand the sensation of drowning for about fifteen seconds max!!]

And, from the book, "Devil's Guard": [describing how a German prisoner post-World War Two was interrogated by the American counter-intellignece-corps [CIC]]

"kept chained to a hot radiator, naked of course, for ninety-six hours in such a manner that he could neither sit nor bed. At the end of the second day his ankles began to swell. At the end of the ordeal they were swollen to the size of grapefruits and he could not flex a muscle. During that ninety-six hours, he was given very spicy food and only one small cup of water per day. Installed twenty inches from his ears a pair of loudspeakers kept blaring distorted music without a break."

[and no bathroom breaks either. You crap and pee right where you are. Wallow in your own filth!]

Hostile interrogation! NOT torture as the term is normally understood? BUT, in a gray area that few want to cross!? Gets results, but at what cost?

coolbert.

Heat & Cold.

This is coolbert:

"This for heat, this for cold - - used scientifically" - - Emilio Largo, Thunderball [played by Adolfo Celi].

Torture seems to be have become a hot button topic for the media recently.

Torture reportedly being used to coerce information from captured terrorists and suspected terrorists as part of the Global War on Terror [GWOT].

What is torture? IS torture really being used? Can torture be used in some circumstances [the ticking bomb scenario]? Is the U.S. "outsourcing" torture? Etc.

The chattering class really seems to LIKE this topic!!

Torture is defined as:

"For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession . . ."

The government of Israel and the NOTED Harvard Law Professor and civil rights advocate Alan Dershowitz have hit upon the word SEVERE. The argument has been made that "moderate" forms of physical coercion are PERMISSIBLE!!?? All in the context of the so-called ticking bomb syndrome [the bomb is about to go off and the guy in your hands knows where it is at].

"Tell that to Alan Dershowitz. He is big on the ticking nuclear bomb scenario--we will torture the suspected terrorist to obtain the necessary info to save lives of innocents."

A recent article in the Chicago Tribune highlighted the practice of WATERBOARDING. A method being used [??] by interrogators of such captured terrorists as the infamous Khalid Sheik Muhammad.

"From the Wikipedia:

"Waterboarding


There are several different varieties of interrogation techniques referred to as waterboarding.

In the medieval form of waterboarding, a victim was strapped to a board and tipped back or lowered into a body of water until he or she believed that drowning was imminent. The subject was then removed from the water and revived. If necessary the process was repeated.

This technique is also chillingly represented as having been used by the Waffen SS of the Third Reich in the Robin Williams movie, "Jakob the Liar". Little more than a stout plank, a stout hinge, the requisite fasteners, a common bathtub, the necessary personnel restraints and the water itself are required, as one finds upon observation.

Although in a technical sense there are actually several other forms of water-based interrogation, all variants have in common that the victim reliably almost drowns but is rescued or re-animated by their captor just before death occurs. The technique is designed to be both psychological and physical. The psychological effect is inherent in the fact that the victim is given to understand that he or she shall be killed outright by dint of enforced drowning unless their cooperation as demanded is indeed produced promptly. This perception reinforces the interrogator's control and gives the victim sound cause to experience mortal fear.

The physical effects are extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints applied to the struggling victim. The psychological effects are lifelong (see below)."

You, the person being interrogated, have a bath towel or T-shirt placed over your face. Water is then poured continually over the towel and shirt, soaking it thoroughly and making it impossible for you to breathe. You are subjected to a sensation of drowning. This is repeated OVER and OVER during a single session of interrogation until you give in and answer questions. You can have this done repeatedly at the discretion of the interrogators, without a lot of effort on their part. The object is NOT to inflict a LOT of pain or KILL you, OR to permanently injure you, but to make it very uncomfortable for YOU!! [well, this goes without saying, does it not!!]

Here are some further extracts from that Wikipedia article:

"This is a technique demonstrated on U.S. military personnel by other U.S. military personnel when they are being taught to resist enemy interrogations in the event of capture (see SERE)."

U.S. Navy SEALS will have waterboarding DONE TO THEM BY FRIENDLY PERSONNEL [???] as part of their Survival, Escape, Resistance, Evasion [SERE] training!!! A SEAL, in training, will be tied or held down and waterboarded!!! JUST TO SEE WHAT IT IS LIKE!!!

"According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess."




Please note the web site referenced in the photo. www.rotten.com!!!

Begging to confess!!?? Begging!!??

Sheik, for those of you not familiar with him, is the man who master-minded the 9/11 attacks.

The average person can last only 14 seconds??!!

Trying the technique on yourself or others is not unusual. The French General who tortured Algerians in the 1950's [he was a Captain at the time], first submitted to all the tortures himself before using them on "suspects"!!??

[these "techniques" are very briefly shown in the movie "Battle of Algiers". To include electric shocks and drowning.]

Israel is also reputed to have used a variation of waterboarding on captured terrorists. This involves placing a burlap sack over the head. A sack that has been saturated with water. The sack is secured at the neck and your are left like that for some, gasping and choking. When you are ready to be interrogated, the sack is removed. The sack constitutes "softening up".

Of course, as I have said before, waterboarding is NOT the normal thing the lay person visualizes when they think of torture. Pulling of teeth, breaking of fingers, inserting a red-hot ram rod into the fundament [again, those of you without a baccalaureate degree might have to look that word up, fundament!!].

Nonetheless, according to this one doc:

"Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, has treated "a number of people" who had been subjected to forms of near-asphyxiation, including "water-boarding," in which a suspect is bound and immersed in water until he nearly drowns. An interview for the New Yorker states:

He argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn't take showers, and panicked when it rained. "The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience," he said. [2]"

I leave it for the reader to decide about waterboarding. Torture as torture is commonly understood?? You decide.

coolbert.

Aussaresses!

This is coolbert:

With all the talk in the media about the "torture" of captured and suspected Al Qaeda terrorists, I find this to be amazing:

"Friday, 15 June, 2001 - - French general charged over Algeria

General Aussaresses: No regrets

An 82-year-old former French general who admitted carrying out torture and executions during the war in Algeria is to stand trial on the charge of being an apologist for war crimes.

Paul Aussaresses wrote a book, Special Services Algeria: 1955-1957, which caused a sensation when it came out two months ago."

This French ex-General officer [he has by now been stripped of his rank], wrote a book in 2001 describing the tortures inflicted on captured Algerian terrorists during the counter-insurgency carried out by the French Army in Algeria from 1954-60. It seems that Aussaresses is being tried, or has been tried and convicted, NOT for the tortures he ordered, and in some cases carried out himself, but rather for WRITING A BOOK SAYING THAT THE EVENTS DID ACTUALLY OCCUR!! [torture was carried out!!]

This, under French law, is a violation of being, "an apologist for war crimes".

NOT A VIOLATION FOR THE CRIMES THEMSELVES, BUT MERELY BEING APOLOGIST FOR THEM!!!!

This is the fuzzy type of thinking that makes one wonder what goes on in the world!?

"Aussaresses fought fire with fire and used terror to break the Arab Muslim terrorist network in French Algeria. For those in the West who have the defeatist attitude that Westerners can never defeat Third World terrorists operating out of their own communities/bases, read this book [the book written by the General that acts as an apology for torture].

Yeah, the French military used torture to defeat the terrorists. This Frenchman knew how to deal with Arab terrorists who raped French farmers, murdered French children, planted bombs in discos and on trains (same thing happening now in Israel and in Spain, Russia), Aussaressess infiltrated the terrorist networks, found the people responsible and had them tortured (if they had information) and executed. He didn't bother with courts of justice or lose a lot of sleep that his methods didn't conform to liberal ideals of intellectuals back in Paris."

Well, that is the problem, isn't it?? Fight FIRE WITH FIRE. You often hear that term used by a whole lot of folks.

Is this what we talking about when the word torture is bandied about by the media with regard to captured Al Qaeda prisoners. NO!! We are not talking about electric shocks, pulling out finger nails or teeth or breaking fingers!! Far from it. We are talking about for the most part intense PSYCHOLOGICAL methods called from lack of a better term "hostile interrogation" [Shlomo Gazit].

Let us not confuse and lump together apples and oranges and call them same thing!!

coolbert.