Fruit?
This is coolbert:
"By their fruits you shall know them."
From the King James Version of the Bible:
" A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3.10 · Lk. 3.9
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mt. 12.33 "
Also:
"you can't accomplish moral ends by using immoral means" - - Warren G. Harding.
Denis Donaldson, one-time leader of the Provisional Irish Republican Army [Provo-IRA] and a participant in the Northern Ireland government since the Easter 1998 accords, has been found dead.
Killed by a shotgun blast to the head. Original reports said that his body showed signs of torture, but this is not clear.
Donaldson, all the while being a LEADER of the IRA fighters in Northern Ireland, was ALSO an informant and spy for the British Security Services. This was recently revealed.
Donaldson, after being "outed", fled for his life, but to no avail. He was hunted down, found, and executed. Whether he was tortured or not prior to execution as I have said, is open to question at this point.
And this sort of thing was and is NOT an anomaly for the IRA. Over a period of almost forty years, there have been a slew of abductions/tortures/executions of persons suspected by the IRA of collaboration/informing/spying for the British.
Consider these cases:
"How the IRA dealt with those it considered informers
CHRISTOPHER HARTE
Shot in 1993 by the IRA, who said he was a member of the organisation and claimed he was an informer. His body was found with gunshot wounds to the head.
PATRICK FLOOD
IRA member from Londonderry was killed in 1990, his body found hooded and gagged on a border road. He had been missing from home for seven weeks. His mother said: "At the end of the day it's people like me, and their families, that are left to pick up the pieces."
MICHAEL MADDEN
Pensioner was shot six times at his west Belfast home in 1980. The IRA claimed he had given information to police about an attack in which a police officer was killed. A detective told the inquest there was no truth in the claim. The coroner described him as "a recluse causing no trouble to anyone."
FRANK HEGARTY
Body was found on the border in 1986. Originally from Londonderry, he moved to England after an arms find, but later returned to the city. The Republican leader Martin McGuinness strongly denied claims by his mother that he helped persuade her son to return home, assuring him he would be safe.
CAROLINE MORELAND
Mother of three from Belfast was shot and her body left on the border in 1994. The IRA claimed she had been working as a police informer.
EAMON MAGUIRE
Former member of the IRA, his body was found close to the border in 1987. The IRA claimed he had worked for eight years as an informer with police in the Irish Republic, which his family denied."
The IRA likes to think of itself, and portrays itself, as being brave "freedom fighters" waging just war against an oppressive British government and it's flunkies. As with almost all such modern "revolutionary groups", there is, however, a very dark side. A side that these "revolutionaries" care not to share with the general public.
It seems the IRA attracted a certain disreputable type of person that not only would torture prior to execution, but relished the task too!! A person who tortured not only to extract information, but enjoyed inflicting pain as well. A sadist!!
Worse yet, many of those who endured torture and eventual execution in all probability were INNOCENT!!??
Merely for the IRA to THINK you were a collaborator/informer/spy was enough for you to meet a grisly end.
The IRA is not the only guerilla/insurgent/terrorist group to engage in the practice of torture/execution of suspected "stoolies".
During the anti-apartheid war against the white South African regime, the fighting arm of the African National Congress [ANC], the Spear of the Nation, was also reputed to have the unseemly reputation for torturing and executing those that it suspected of collaboration/informing/spying for the white apartheid government in Pretoria.
Again, as with the IRA, the ANC security apparatus merely had to THINK that you were a suspect for some really bad stuff to happen to you. ANC security types evidently were trained by KGB operatives. So these were rough customers dealing out rough stuff and NOT just on an occasional basis.
NOT just occasionally, but routinely.
Sadly, it seems that MANY of those suspected, tortured, and executed for collaboration/informing/spying for the white regime were INNOCENT!! Same as for the IRA!!
With the end of the apartheid regime in South Africa, a chance was given to all violators of human rights from the anti-apartheid struggle to appear before the South African Truth and Reconciliation [T & R] Commission and make a confession of guilt.
You would receive amnesty for such a confession regardless of your crimes.
And it was noted that it was not uncommon for white South African security types to admit to torture and execution of captured ANC fighters.
However, among the ANC contingent, NOT ONE of the security apparatus from "Spear of the Nation" was willing to come forth and admit to the torture and execution of "suspects". This even with prodding from Archbishop Tutu.
"By their fruits you shall know them"!!
Yes!!
In the case of the IRA and the ANC, it is rotten fruit.
coolbert.
From the King James Version of the Bible:
" A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3.10 · Lk. 3.9
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mt. 12.33 "
Also:
"you can't accomplish moral ends by using immoral means" - - Warren G. Harding.
Denis Donaldson, one-time leader of the Provisional Irish Republican Army [Provo-IRA] and a participant in the Northern Ireland government since the Easter 1998 accords, has been found dead.
Killed by a shotgun blast to the head. Original reports said that his body showed signs of torture, but this is not clear.
Donaldson, all the while being a LEADER of the IRA fighters in Northern Ireland, was ALSO an informant and spy for the British Security Services. This was recently revealed.
Donaldson, after being "outed", fled for his life, but to no avail. He was hunted down, found, and executed. Whether he was tortured or not prior to execution as I have said, is open to question at this point.
And this sort of thing was and is NOT an anomaly for the IRA. Over a period of almost forty years, there have been a slew of abductions/tortures/executions of persons suspected by the IRA of collaboration/informing/spying for the British.
Consider these cases:
"How the IRA dealt with those it considered informers
CHRISTOPHER HARTE
Shot in 1993 by the IRA, who said he was a member of the organisation and claimed he was an informer. His body was found with gunshot wounds to the head.
PATRICK FLOOD
IRA member from Londonderry was killed in 1990, his body found hooded and gagged on a border road. He had been missing from home for seven weeks. His mother said: "At the end of the day it's people like me, and their families, that are left to pick up the pieces."
MICHAEL MADDEN
Pensioner was shot six times at his west Belfast home in 1980. The IRA claimed he had given information to police about an attack in which a police officer was killed. A detective told the inquest there was no truth in the claim. The coroner described him as "a recluse causing no trouble to anyone."
FRANK HEGARTY
Body was found on the border in 1986. Originally from Londonderry, he moved to England after an arms find, but later returned to the city. The Republican leader Martin McGuinness strongly denied claims by his mother that he helped persuade her son to return home, assuring him he would be safe.
CAROLINE MORELAND
Mother of three from Belfast was shot and her body left on the border in 1994. The IRA claimed she had been working as a police informer.
EAMON MAGUIRE
Former member of the IRA, his body was found close to the border in 1987. The IRA claimed he had worked for eight years as an informer with police in the Irish Republic, which his family denied."
The IRA likes to think of itself, and portrays itself, as being brave "freedom fighters" waging just war against an oppressive British government and it's flunkies. As with almost all such modern "revolutionary groups", there is, however, a very dark side. A side that these "revolutionaries" care not to share with the general public.
It seems the IRA attracted a certain disreputable type of person that not only would torture prior to execution, but relished the task too!! A person who tortured not only to extract information, but enjoyed inflicting pain as well. A sadist!!
Worse yet, many of those who endured torture and eventual execution in all probability were INNOCENT!!??
Merely for the IRA to THINK you were a collaborator/informer/spy was enough for you to meet a grisly end.
The IRA is not the only guerilla/insurgent/terrorist group to engage in the practice of torture/execution of suspected "stoolies".
During the anti-apartheid war against the white South African regime, the fighting arm of the African National Congress [ANC], the Spear of the Nation, was also reputed to have the unseemly reputation for torturing and executing those that it suspected of collaboration/informing/spying for the white apartheid government in Pretoria.
Again, as with the IRA, the ANC security apparatus merely had to THINK that you were a suspect for some really bad stuff to happen to you. ANC security types evidently were trained by KGB operatives. So these were rough customers dealing out rough stuff and NOT just on an occasional basis.
NOT just occasionally, but routinely.
Sadly, it seems that MANY of those suspected, tortured, and executed for collaboration/informing/spying for the white regime were INNOCENT!! Same as for the IRA!!
With the end of the apartheid regime in South Africa, a chance was given to all violators of human rights from the anti-apartheid struggle to appear before the South African Truth and Reconciliation [T & R] Commission and make a confession of guilt.
You would receive amnesty for such a confession regardless of your crimes.
And it was noted that it was not uncommon for white South African security types to admit to torture and execution of captured ANC fighters.
However, among the ANC contingent, NOT ONE of the security apparatus from "Spear of the Nation" was willing to come forth and admit to the torture and execution of "suspects". This even with prodding from Archbishop Tutu.
"By their fruits you shall know them"!!
Yes!!
In the case of the IRA and the ANC, it is rotten fruit.
coolbert.
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