Dialogue?

From Colonel Craig USMC:

Some dialogue with my liberal friends
____________________

We are now just past the:

60th anniversary of the end of WW II

30th annivesary of the end of War in Southeast Asia

15th from the fall of Euro Communism

Interesting set of dates. Time moves on quickly. Our grandparents and
parents fought WWII, our parents and our generation fought against
communism.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sue wrote

"It doesn't offend me that you consider the Cold War WWIII, if that's your
understanding. Your understanding is not historically accepted.

Pat O'B wrote

"In several of your posts now, you're mentioned that we are entering WWIV. Um
Craig,...there never was a WWIII."

++++++++++++++++++++++

Craig replies. Some historians have begun to call the Cold War World War III.
Calling it a Cold War is a bit of a misnomer, since many, many millions of
people died, were tortured, and imprisoned. And it was a hot war a number of
times (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, China, Taiwan, Afghanistan, Korea,
Greece, Malaysia, etc etc). Much of the world was engaged in some form.The
millions of people who died did not think it was a peaceful Cold War.

Our friends who lost siblings and other relatives think it was a big deal.
First time a round or rocket comes close to you, you think it is hot.

A google search for Cold War World War III will give you a large number of
references.

But let us not quibble over a name. Since you don't like the term perhaps we can
agree to call it:

The Big Fracas

fracas: NOUN: A noisy, disorderly fight or quarrel; a brawl.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Sue wrote "It's rather factitious Craig, in your stating... "We stopped the
expansion of Communism."

"World War constitutes just that....the World. It seems to me that the World
did not engage in that fight against Communism, only Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson,
Nixon, Ford, (zilch Carter) and Reagan....and oh yes, McCarthy."

++++++++++++++++++++++

Craig replies. The West stopped the expansion of Communism. The West includes
Nato, most of free Europe, Australia, Canada, and the US. Also helping were the
SEATO alliance and numerous small countries around the world.

And we did it without blowing up the world, - quite an accomplishment. Should be
quite a pat on the back of the West. But you will never get that from old
lefties. They will keep talking about the evil deeds of western democracies,
especially the US.

Many countries were engaged in the struggle with communism. Comrades of mine who
fought and died in Vietman came from several countries, including the US, Mexico, Vietnam,
& Korea. Korea was a UN affair, with numerous countries helping.

Numerous other countries lost troops in our various shooting wars with
communists. And quite a few more who were badly wounded.

They all get credit for stopping a very evil system that was arguably worse than
the Nazis.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Pat O wrote from Ireland

"> the scariest part seems to be that it's a guerilla (oh
> my, don't we itch to call them all 'terrorists?') war.


Craig replies: Pat, what do you call the guys in your Island who blow up
innocent people?

Freedom fighters? Fracas fighters?

Pat, Sue, JW, you are all bright folks. But I hear mostly critiques of US
actions. Nothing wrong with that, but it would be much more worthwhile to
propose a concrete course of action. Perhaps we will jointly come up with a good
solution that could become policy.


What, in your opinion, was the correct thing to do after 911?

And, what should we do now?

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No reply

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "susan
> Subject: Craig..dazed and confused
>
> Hi there Craig,
>
> In several of your posts now, you're mentioned that we are entering WWIV. Um
Craig,...there never was a WWIII. You suggested, (affirmatively I might add)
that the war on Communism was WWIII. I took graduate World History in 1996 and
I can tell you first hand, there was no WWIII mentioned in the text I was
assigned (Harvard published in 1989). World War constitutes just that....the
World. It seems to me that the World did not engage in that fight against
Communism, only Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, (zilch Carter) and
Reagan....and oh yes, McCarthy.
>
> So, WWIII hasn't occurred Craig and hopefully never will.
>
> Sue

____________________________________


Craig replies

Well, don't call it WW 3 if that offends you. The conflict among the communist
countries and the west lasted from about 1945 to about 1989, and still goes on a
bit, and convulsed a large part of the world, and resulted in many millions of
deaths. And a lot of us thought it was a pretty big deal.

We stopped the expansion of Communism. It was a very bad system. I have been to
a number of communist countries, and they were not pleasant. Especially for the
citizens of those countries.

We did not have to fight wars. We could have surrendered to the Japanese and
Nazis, or the Communists. We could have become Nazi supermen, or a
Japanese colony, or Communist. Or we could
continue to turn the other cheek, and hope that the tyrants will tire of killing
our people and leave us alone. There are always choices other than war.

Communism was pretty bad. The following are taken from several sources. Perhaps
they overstate the numbers - who knows? Hard thing to count very accurately.
But I think even you and your author of your Harvard Published History Book
(1989) would agree that the Communists were just a bit over the top. Or perhaps
not.



TYRANT KILLINGS - UNJUST, UNNECESSARY OR UNNATURAL DEATHS

The US has been engaged in three major conflicts during the lives of our
parents. There are of course many varying estimates of unjust, unnecessary or
unnatural deaths committed by tyrants, but these estimates appear reasonable.

There is considerable overlap in the generations. For the purposes of this
discussion, written from the view point of a baby boomer, the generations are
our Grandparents born around 1880-1900, our Parents born around 1910-1925, we
early Baby Boomers born around 1946-1953, and our children, born around
1968-1985.

World War II 1941 - 1945 Directed by our grand parents, fought by our parents


Hitler 34,000,000 killings

Hirohito (Japan: 1926-89) 1,000,000 over a million unjust, unnecessary or
unnatural deaths

Hirota Koki (Japan: 1936-37) 1,000,000 " "




Struggle with Communism 1945 -1989, and to present Directed by our parents,
fought by us, mostly cold war, hot war in Greece, Vietnam, Korea, Central
America, Africa, Asia

Stalin 20,000,000 to 50,000,000 killings

Mao 10,000,000 to 40,000,000 killings

Ho Chi Minh (North Vietnam:1945-69) 1,000,000 over a million unjust, unnecessary
or unnatural deaths

Kim Il Sung (North Korea:1948-94) 1,000,000 " "

Lenin (USSR: 1917-24) 1,000,000 " "

Pol Pot (Cambodia: 1975-79) 1,700,000 " "

China ((75 to present) ? ? Little outside
reporting

Vietnam (75 to present) ? ? " "

Laos ? ? " "

Tibet ? ? ' "

Cuba ? ? " "


Sources

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm
http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/
http://users.erols. com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm

Colonel Craig USMC.