Chris Matthews.

This is coolbert:

Listening to the very end of the Chris Matthews TV show this Sunday morning. And hear something that is really amazing.

Something that just demonstrates that even the so-called "experts", pundits and "analysts", persons, who should know better, just DO NOT know better.

Chris is talking about the Senate Intelligence committee. How this committee is going to hold hearings to see if the U.S. public was lied to about intelligence giving justification in the lead up to the current Iraqi War.

Chris says that there were four reasons given for going to war in the days prior to the invasion of Iraq.

These were:

1. Saddam was still involved in the building of a nuclear weapon.

2. American forces would be greeted by cheering crowds as liberators.

3. Oil revenues from Iraqi oil would pay for the war without cost to the American taxpayer.

4. Cheap and abundant oil would be available in the aftermath of the war to the American consumer.

Chris then says that the administration is batting "zero for four" on all counts.

But none of the above is the main topic of this blog entry.

What is the main topic of this blog entry is what Chris then goes on to say. Something very outrageous and just PLAIN WRONG!!

Chris says that this "lying" to the American public about reasons for going to war has happened before.

The event Chris has in mind is the Gulf of Tonkin incident. An incident prior to massive U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. An incident that prompted Congress to allow President Johnson the authority to wage war in Vietnam without any further Congressional, constitutionally mandated approval

Chris then says that the problem with the Gulf of Tonkin incident is that "it never happened"

This incident Chris is referring to is the attack by two North Vietnamese torpedo boats on two American destroyers [Maddox and the Turner Joy] patrolling within international waters off the coast of North Vietnam, the in the Gulf of Tonkin.

North Vietnamese torpedo boats DID launch DAY TIME attacks on the American destroyers, launching torpedoes, attempting to sink the American vessels. In this they were unsuccessful. The North Vietnamese boats themselves were either sunk or disabled, dead in the water. This attack, during DAY TIME did occur. Of this there is NO doubt. Many witnesses can attest to this. This is NOT a subject for dispute.

What is in question, and has been in question ever since the attacks occurred, is was there a second NIGHT TIME ATTACK on the same two American destroyers, still patrolling in the approximate location where the initial day time attack happened?

Persons onboard the two destroyers present and on duty at the time DID FEEL they were under attack. This was based upon radar contacts and underwater sound devices reporting "torpedoes running". The two ships, the Turner Joy and the Maddox, did engage through radar contacts, what they THOUGHT AND FELT were a second round of attacks by North Vietnamese torpedo boats.

Over the years, and even at the TIME of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, this SECOND attack was disputed.

It may very well be that the second attack DID NOT take place. It may very well be that overzealous, jittery radar operators and commanders BELIEVED THEY WERE UNDER ATTACK WHEN THEY WERE NOT!!

Many folks in authority to know what is what have spoken on this subject over the years and I think the consensus is that it CANNOT BE DETERMINED WITH ANY CERTITUDE THAT A SECOND ATTACK DID TAKE PLACE!!

However, that is not the real question.

What is the real question is what was going on in the minds of the persons on the spot at the time.

Did they have a reasonable suspicion that they MIGHT have been under attack for a second time. To this I would answer YES!!

Was this purported second incident a lie?? A lie told to work the American people into a mental state where they would approve retaliation and an escalation of the war??

NO!!

NOT to the extent that the word LIE is ordinarily defined, and used in conventional everyday conversation.

It may very well be that President Johnson and his advisors DID believe that two attacks had occurred on the American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin. ONE attack, the day time attack, DID occur. This is not even a question. NO doubt about the day time attack. What is at question is, DID a night time attack occur. The jury is out on that one!! And perhaps, ALWAYS WILL be!!

[personal note. In my opinion Chris Matthews probably knows the same facts about the Gulf of Tonkin incident as I do. This stuff has been widely reported and talked about in the media. He just WANTS to roil the waters and create a misperception about what the facts are, and wants to do so in a deliberate manner. My personal opinion. This on the part of Chris is just plain WRONG!!]

coolbert.