For Cliff:

Each and every source comes up with different numbers and figures on the same
subject. And who is right? Well, my contention is that it all depends. How
are these things counted? What is the criteria used, the time frame used,
the definitions, etc. Everyone comes up with different figures. So who is
right? Hard to tell unless you actually research the source documents and
find the definitions that the author used. Who does that? Hard to do.

Al L.


From:Clifhull@juno.com

The figures for casualties at Cassino sounds awfully high to me if they are only counting the three failed attempts. The first attempt for the 34 and 36 Div. cost about 2500 casualties each. The second was by the 4th Indian to expand the salient the 34th had obtained and the third attempt added 2 div.
(I think) of New Zealanders so only 5 divisions were involved and I know
they didn't total 54,000 casualties. For the fourth successful attempt
they had 2 Polish, 2 Algerian/Moroccan, the new American (85th and 88th)
and (i think) some 8th Army Canadians as well.

Would those of us who had moved on to Anzio also be part of the
breakout? Clif



On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 07:22:22 -0500 "Craig H. Hullinger"
Craighullinger@msn.com writes:

First time I have seen a number to Cassino lost approximately 54,000
men first three attempts - sounds worse than Normandy or Pacific
Battles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino

The strategic position of Monte Cassino has made it the repeated
scene of battles and sieges from antiquity.

In World War II, the Battle of Monte Cassino (also known as Battle
for Rome) was, in fact, a costly series of battles fought by the
Allies with the intention of breaking through the Gustav Line,
seizing Rome and linking up with Allied forces contained within the
Anzio pocket.

The first battle started on January 4, 1944 and the monastery atop
the hill was destroyed by Allied bombing on February 15. Allied
aircraft heavily bombed the ruins of the monastery and staged an
assault on March 15.

During three failed attempts to take the heavily-guarded monastery
of Monte Cassino (January 17-25, February 15-February 18, March
15-March 25), the forces of the USA, the UK, India and New Zealand
lost approximately 54,000 men yet did not manage to seize the city
or the castle overlooking the Rapido river valley.

The so-called Fourth Battle of Monte Cassino was fought by the 2nd
Polish Corps under General Wladyslaw Anders (May 11-May 19). The
first assault (May 11-May 12) brought heavy losses but also allowed
the British 8th Army under General Sir Oliver Leese to break through
German lines in the Liri river valley below the monastery.

The second assault (May 17-May 19), carried out at immense cost by
the Polish troops with the aid of a force of Morroccan hill
tribesmen used for mountain warfare, pushed the German 1st Parachute
Division out of its positions on the hills surrounding the monastery
and almost surrounded them. In the early morning of May 18 a
reconnaissance group of Polish 12th Podolian Uhlans Regiment seized
the ruins.

The capture of Monte Cassino allowed the British and American
divisions to begin the advance on Rome, which fell on June 4, 1944
just two days before the Normandy invasion.

In the course of the battles the historic monastery of Monte
Cassino, where Benedict first established the rule that ordered
monasticism in the west, was entirely pulverized. Fortunately its
irreplaceable library had been removed for safekeeping to Rome at
the start of the war. The site has since been rebuilt, but the
historic buildings are utterly gone.